tv Open Phones with Juliette Kayyem CSPAN December 3, 2016 4:00pm-4:31pm EST
>> i would argue that's new costly and honestly nothing in term was defense right now. we're spending less than cold war average in terms of gdp which has grown but in materials of gdp this is not a burden that we cannot bear the burden we with cannot bear with the society and what has happened in europe has changed political dynamic there are huge cost in not confronting this. >> what's your applause --
guide to protect our homeland and your home juliet, what did you do to the obama administration?ad >> secretary for department of homeland security so trying to integrate state and local homeland security efforts whether it is preventing bad thing from happening or as we often saw responding to a bad they think happening. so i had come out of state government overseeing a homeland security apparatus for the state of massachusetts. >> what are issues that you worked on? >> it went again to the fact that a lot of people think of land security as just terrorism it is not. people in my field talk about all hazard so what is homeland security so all hazard it is that is any risk that this nation may face so it is terrorism.a but it's hurricanes, oil spill, with zika, cyberattacking with anything and what we try to do at the department of home lapd
security is focus on the security and also prepare in particular, you know, cities and states for what might happen to their populations if the threat comes to pass, and so you know,o in the book i describe to while 2001 sort of created homeland security the scary word with and everyone was so afraid 2005 was really a course correction and that was hurricane katrina, and that told people like me and people in the field and people in government that a nation that was -- about too focused on stopping 19 guys from getting on four airplanes was not nurturing an apparatus that would save, you know, over -- you know, close to 2,000 people from dying. reeght which in new orleans. >> in your view does the conglomeration that is department of homeland security work? >> you know, if you had to redue it you would to it differently. but at some stage things you have to commit with the boat you fill. and so what -- what every secretary has done
from ridge, michael, the secretary napolitano who i worked for and now jeh johnson is try to create a one unified dhs, and there are ways to think about what dhs might or shouldth look like in the future. i have strong ideas, or you know strong opinion if. i mean, for one it's clearly our border agency. it is the coast guard tsa custom and border protection. what is flowing in and out of the country, and not just simply, you know, to stop it. it is actually how tow promote commercial activity and the movement of people and goods and ideas. and another lane is, of course, sort of fema resiliency, response apparatus when something bad happens are our city states, and nation prepared to save people when they need it the most. >> before we go further phone lines are up so you participate,
for those in the east an central time zone 202-748-8201. for those of you who life in the mountain and pacific time zone dial in, we're taking calls on national security. the department of homeland security juliet you said that you had strong thoughts about how you would resign it. what are two things that you would do differently? >> i would take the secret service out. doesn't make affiliate sense. it is a beast so aligned with the want of justice and term was investigation so that certainly is one thing, and then, what a lot of people don't know is that department of homeland security has a large intelligence apparatus. i'm not convinced having been in the beats that that has a value added. and i'd much rather have the department focus on what we call the consumer of intelligence being some, you know, it figures out what the threats are, and then responds in kind or prepares in kind. look, at department of home lapd
security my classified briefing book was the terror threat as you would think which are always vague and never quite specific. and then the next part of the book is the weather. right, because you're, you know, you're are hurricanes coming? are we worried about flooding here so people need to have the department about all hazard and my worry is -- we so focused on it as being the terrorism department that we're going to forget that it actually is working with states and locality for all if hazards, and that's a good thing because there's not that much terror in the united states. i mean you couldn't create a whole agency for terrorism. >> so is 9/11 mindsetout moted? >> that's the deeming essentially toe gets our heads arranged the idea of never again. this is out of 9/11 was a fallacy it was a fallacy for a million reasons because, you know, the idea that we were
going to stop all bad flings happening is just -- a fiction given the kind of country that we are and country that we want to know we have toi embrace our vulnerability thato as we go as parents so that's the securities mom aspect, and as we do as individuals in life. i mean, not to scare people here but you know look this is what it means to live in a vulnerable society. right a diverse group of peoplel coming together on street corner sharing, reading, talking aboute books or think of a boston marathon. you can't have a save boston marathon and only perpt safe marathon is to cancel it.fe so what we try to do is try to t minimize risk but also get people to think not only that vulnerability is something that we are font day-to-day level but also that they can be invested it if in their own preparedness and protections and that's where --ed i'm quite critical of even people like me that we talk to the american public that mayt
tune out or freak out for two options that we gave e them a and i try to find another lane so i communicate to read terse as a mother as someone sitting around the kitchen table and let me tell you about terrorism, zika all of the other things that takes a fear out of it. >> in your book security mom you wrote america is designed to be insecure, and that's a good thing. >> it is, i mean just parenting is insecure. we have to recognize that obligation of government is to moin mise risk, maximize sense ever spread so obligation also to maintain who we are as a nation so this -- these ideas of fortress america or kicking them out or, you know, any -- anything that goes wrong at a sign of, you know, someone's fault is just a very unhealthy way to think about the nation that we are.ay so i remind people so people are like why kangt we be more like israel. first of all, you know, there'ss no comparison.
and any given moment in the united states or in 24-hour period there are over 1.4 million people getting on domestic flights in the united states. think of that. think of that's awesome. right that's a good thing from the perspective but that's always going to have -- going to create level of vulnerability. so i -- the mantra of the book is don't be scared get prepared because if people realize i can do something as i do with my kids and having them put on hell metu or talking to them about cyberbullying or whatever, i can actually do something about it. for the one thing that matters the most which is the you know the threat that our nation could face not just today but certainly in the years ahead. >> tsa part of the dhs? >> tsa is. >> does it work? >> so there's a lot of challenges with tsa so i like to, you know, is there a -- there's a clear way in which tsa has changed sort of or lowered the vulnerabilities of our airport and airplanes and one is
in the proof right there's been no attack since 9/11. but we like to remind people that we have to think of security as layered so there's all sorts of things when i'm going on a flight tonight when i sign in there's all sorts of security levels on that. who i am where i've traveled am i a certain type of flyer, did i pay in cash? was i just is in afghanistan all sorts of things so that tsa linf is just one of basically 20 things that are going on. could it be better? yes, ij technology is going to change the way we encountinger that and probably faster to go through. plus, you know, look right now traveling there's a burden and unburdened class. burden class is one who is don't have tsa precheck. and unburdened ones who get to go through and that's the way travel is going to look the in future. but -- it's not perfect. they're trying to fix it. but yods think technology and people sort of giving tsa some
information so that they can be in the unburdened class is going to change airline travel in the next five years. >> intok call thed security mom unclassified guide to protecting --s >> there's a hazard it's a b -- >> and your home right down here in florida you never know where that its life or what it has -- so -- [laughter] >> mosquitoes we're more worried about. i think we're okay. k and xangd ya, virginia, k you're on the show go ahead. >> hi. [laughter] i'm concerned about the ema electronic magnetic pulse and i wonder if they have plans to -- nix our electric grid to protect us. >> yes, so it is a concern for some people and actually it is not a major concern. the biggest threat tour nacialt grid is, of course, its own bys the private sector, and there's
not unfortunately not a lot of rules and regulation it ised regard sort of preparedness and safe and security but critical infrastructure a lot what we talk about now has to do with making sure if there's an tech or if there's any sort of threat that our grid, that we are able to still connect during a crisis. >> why to states have homeland security offices? >> it's a great question. so there are a creation out of 9/11, and they were away for the department to have sort of one stop shopping in each state. so it's just like a state hhs head, you know, health and human services. and so each role is different in each state. some of some are agent general of the national guard in my case i was a civil january overseeing public safety agencies. i work for very progressive --- governor delaware vol path trek at the time we were the bush administration was in its last two years, and so there was some conflict in particular about immigration which was the big issue that we're all talking
about now. er but a way for the department to have one stop shopping my job on the state level to make sure that each of the localities prepared getting the money ando resources they need, and also making sure they wrnght doing things that were inconsistent with who we were as a state so you hear if the militarization of the police department. a lot of that is home lanked security money, and it was moneo that came out of 2001, you knowt money flowing to the safe locality every podunk police department team wants ak47 we're retracting from that. that's a good thing there should be dedicated s.w.a.t. teams but we with need to think about -- what resources plpgds needs on a day-to-day basis, and one said you know they can share with other localities. >> in your book, security mom you write, i sometimes choir that the body american was and maybe still is suffering from ptsd? >> i think we still are.
i think this threat of terror looms over us. i think politicallyally, psychological parentally inconsistent with the data some is for political purpose. part of it is because american public know how to manage risk in a meaningful way. people like me who doesn't communicate with the american public. look, we have a nation over 350a million people with borders that are flow for goods reasons we tend to think of, you know, legal immigration, there's you know million was people coming over the mexican border lawfully every day or every week i should say. so you know, we need to recognize the lessons of 9/11, prepare to avoid catastrophic terrorism. recognize that the terror threat has changed and 15 years since 9/11 and more like what but cale wac mole they have easy accesset
to weaponry. no security apparatus is going to stop that period, and so this idea that if only we did more, we're tougher, we're stronger, we can stop all bad flings happening. you'll be looking at one they think and low and behold a big part of the book, ab an oil spill that changes well being and life of residents of five gulf states so that's a part of me to get people to understand vulnerability why it's so --et and also how they can prepare and engage for their owne preparedness. >> call for juliet comes from mike in fort worth, texas. how are you doing? >> i have an observation and i have a question, the first my observation is -- terrorist ares have already changed our lives around edge and you can't take toothpaste on the airplane.. you can't take soda bottle water all of the that stuff you have in your refrigerator.
you have to tack your shoes off so my question now if i tell them used to koct take so do they don't understand. so in a way that i have already changed our lives around edges. then it's real important but i suspect once we get ahold of this terrorist problem the thing that you know it is a little bid more -- we can live with it but it will get worse but any question is donald trump talks a lot if border security and --en i happen to agree but not restrict -- even though coming here e lislely not a problem with it as far as immigrants come over but unless we secure with a wall or whatever or -- airplane or whatever, however, we do it terrorists are going to use that to come in through border because right now fromt what had i hear on tv it is -- a hard too many infiltrating united states because basically we're overseas. but --
>> you know mike we have your question. >> there's a major concern about border. so basically you know i come from the world of homeland security so let me explain border.and secu boarder already has a wall that never really came out in the discussion. i think there's like. 700 miles of wall and there's pensioning some reason ares why we don't have walls is because it is water or high mountain so sort of hard to do in that instance and a lot of -- you know, surveillance and other issues. so to the extent that net flow of illegal immigration is actually a negative now. which is the sign of how much has been committed to border patrol agents and we have to keep that up. i'm not but most here unlawfully came lawfully over 60% came here on a terrorist visa and travelnd visa and then staid but
controlling borders is they're actually in the united states so then you have a issue about well if you're going to start to deport people what level of deportation or what standard do you want? and i think as i was part of the bongs as we started to set those standards, and i believe that donald trump has -- reiterated or repeated that you want your violent criminal offenders out, and what you want to do is then minimize the disruption of families who are here who have built a life here who are not unlawful. there's no way we're getting rid of or deporting 12 to 15 million illegal grants we wouldn't want to do it but make us a country that we didn't recognize anymore, and i think -- good news is in this world of crazy debating there's bipartisan support for focusingm on criminal felon and others here unlawfully and deporting them. >> in your book security mom you
write about attack occur to transition from one governmentn to another which we're countrily in. >> so i did transition for president obama a little bit different. because it was the first transition for the department of the home lapd security so we were democrats i had never been to the department before. most transitions are people who work in the agency. a big issue so one of the major transition incidents was madrid, of course, o two days before one day before election i believe. so here are my thoughts about this transitions there's been a lot of focus on the people. who is going to be this cabinet secretary we haven't heard much about the homeland of security and have that cabinet post. it is literally one tenth of what goods transitions are about. good transitions are aboutut people who are running an agency happening to the new people and not just the secretary. how does it work? what -- what programs are working? which ones are failing which ones should be kept and what's h
the budget like and coast guard cut dorse they need because of climate change? all sorts of questions. that is now gipping, a little bit too late so a lot of touchul to do but this transition worries me like the last one. a lot of people don't know and imed recommend it for this president-elect. when we came in a major threat alert written about -- against president obama. he was actually one of the most targeted president-elects. part of that wasfrican-an african-american and threat occurring during inauguration that everyone was very worried about so the president with the secretary elect, secretary napolitano decided to ask the former secretary of homeland security mike can you stay is aa extra day? can you stay through january 20th because what you don't want on day one is the transition of leadership when the threat of ayvironment is high. i think it's a pretty smart move
it's a good gesture for the department. i don't know if jeh johnson will agree request it.re but i think it's really important because at the moment when the attack, if the attack or when that moment when peoplen nervous about security because look there's going to be a lot of -- issues going around this inauguration a big march the next day. you "don't ask, don't tell" don't want to be changing captains in the next, is when you think about what the leadership team looks like. >> you also write and maybe i'm interpreting this wrong but altitude that you had your writing about the fact that we're going to come in there and we know everything and then reality hits. [laughter] like first of all, look, i have major objection with this president-elect. i was a strong hillary supporter and helped her, and was planning on being on her transition again, i thought it was a good use of my skills, and then reality hits. part of it is in all of the politics, 80% or o 0% of what
had the department does is going to remain the same. t coast guard is still going to say fisherman who are drowning, the fema going to help flooded victims find sheltering.a you know, this is look it -- custom and border protection is still going to be at the borders in the airports. there are major areas of disagreement that will people like me on the outside will be spepgding a lot of pipe criticizing i think --zing. ban on muslim immigrants is a very bad idea for a hundred reasons. i think some of the draynk draconian will not minimize our risk but for the most part thingings are agencies tend to run. ting that might be not as true for say the department of justice but for an agency like ours we're an operational agency and i think one of the challenges that any new administration comes in as sort of how what are your prioritiesa how do you sort of enforce them and put them into place and how
do you so in a way that has the support of in the homeland security case of the governor's and mayor. so i'm looking, i think there's going to be a lot of pushback in particular by mayors and not just liberal ones.al republican mayors know you can't go to war with your immigrant communities and another issue we haven't talk about is climate change. we have a president-elect who, you know, doesn't recognize climate change.ve it is the exposensual threat that people in my field worry about and disrupt who we are as a nation how we live. so if your federal government i not dealing with i think mayor and governors are doing creative things as they are here in miami to address it. there's no option. >> next call for juliet her book is called security mom unclassified guide to protect your homeland and your home is don thanks for holding. you're on the air.
>> good evening -- [inaudible] please go ahead with your question ore o'comment. >> yeah, can you hear me? >> go ahead with your question or comment we're listening. >> okay, thank you. yeah, i'm more concerned like that concerned about so-called terrorist threat. isis and -- al qaeda. i'm more concerned about the culture of violence in this country.y. all of the guns that we have and shooting every day on the tv i hear someone got shot and kill sod what about these militia groups. here you have militia groups out here aiding border patrol. talk about that. why do we have militia groups out here aiding the border patrol? can you speak on that? >> don, juliet >> excellent question first one on guns as i
say in the book -- the thing that makes us victimst is not isis not any of the other things i mentioned, of course, is a gun and it is the sort of proliferation of guns it is the lack of gun culture lack of gun rules so i know that and, in fact, in the book i talk aboutof ways even people who own guns for people to be more responsible with them in ownership. it is a simple basic fact that five-year-old an guns don't match. and a don't work well together and so if you actually looked a data a lot of the gun deaths are related to either in house accidents or suicides so we need to get very serious about that. i have stronger gun laws as a way to minimize risk and no-brainer for me is, of courses the no fly rule not permitting people on no fly list from acquiring guns so that's terrorism gun next so should not
be aloud in most instances sometimes there's mlu with local law enforcement of my understanding but vigilante groups help brorder protection as far as rules are right now that should be allowed but you're right that the rise of white supremacy in this nation and to be honest in response to a very -- harsh election, is something that will be part of the terror threat for many communities in this country. and we need to take that as seriously if not more so than say the isis threat which is still it shall still occurred that is thankfully minimal in the democratic. >> david is in no. how david you're on booktv we're listening. go ahead and make your comments. >> i want to just say this is s one excellent presentation. i for one never really thought of homeland security the way you
told us about it. and i think that maybe that's part of the problem. i don't think that i'm unique in not knowing that but i want to tellout way you've made this presentation was so good. you should put it on like peek or you should put it on wikileaks because it is important for people to know, soy thank you. >> thanks, dad no i'm joking. that was not my dads but thank you i appreciate that. in part of what the book is trying to do and i should shameless plug i have a podcast on our local mpr station the name of a secure room and -- some of you know i'm on cnn talking about these issues but my goal of e telling this as a memoir and a mother for not, you know, first and foremost and then one of the home lapd security people is to try to get people to recognize what homeland security is about. so one of my favorite moment it is in the book or explanation in
the book is when i describe for those of us in new england how a snow day is called most don't know they're waiting for someone to call it so in detail ithey a explain sort of what are waying that a snow day is callinged and decide whether people go or disoangt stay home or how -- what happens after an attempted terrorist attack what happens with the airlines and things like that. that's how to -- but also provided by each of us can engage our own family and, of course, our communities in not just minimizing the risk but i think it's really important to succeed saying in the day and age also maintain who we are, as a community and as a nation. you know, it is --as it is very important that we do not focus on security so muchhat makes this nation so vibrant as i sit here in miami with thousands of people buying books it is amazing. [laughter] >> tom in illinois make your il
meant for juliet. >> thanks for taking any call ir appreciate it. once i'm sure your book ised to another fine book stores and available for purchase. i, you the best of luck with that. but my question is, to the lone wolf or the radicalized individual in their bedroom, from a security standpoint in -- your purview, what programs are available to win the hearts and minds back of these individuals from commit these crimes? because it seems leak a philosophical debate at that point. i sure appreciate your comments. and the best was lung with your book. thanks. >> thank you so much. no, this is serious business and the government has been taking it seriously from bush through obama. so i said a lot of king king thy so the program is calledden counters violent extremism pieces that the government is a
part of and basically message is look the government is not going to convince a young guy who either converted or -- convincing him not but to pen game in mum communities in minimizing the extremism in their own communities and radicalization process. so a lot of this is sort of good old fashion community policingng you know how to we talk to communities bring them forwarden gauge them in a common effort so that's important right now because -- because for for a variety of reasons but when we unlike europe, the good news is, that we do not have a general -- sort of a generational radicalization problem. we have cases. but we're not dealing with 3,000. 4,000 people going to damascus w to get trained and then returning to either france or germany or geography helps us in that regard.